Posted 29th January 2014 | 14 Comments
New Thameslink train goes on show
THE first full-size example of the trains which are being built by Siemens for Thameslink goes on show in London's Docklands today.
Two Class 700 vehicles have been unveiled at the ExCel exhibition centre, following a ceremony in which rail minister Stephen Hammond was joined by Steve Scrimshaw of Siemens UK and David Statham, managing director of the present operator First Capital Connect.
The Class 700 is 25 per cent lighter than current rolling stock, making it more agile and also saving on energy. The trains will be required to provide a service through the core Thameslink section in central London at 2.5 minute headways -- or 24 trains an hour -- and will start to enter service in 2016.
The amount of time taken to stop at stations will be crucial, and the movement of passengers on and off has been made easier by wide doors and generously-sized vestibules.
Because space is necessary to cope with the expected heavy demand, especially in the central area, each train will include a section of 2+1 seating and many standard class seats are 'airline' style.
The designers of the train were faced with the need to provide a compromise, because the Thameslink sets will provide a high frequency Metro service but must also cater for longer-distance passengers, including those travelling to the two airports on the route at Gatwick and Luton.
Rail minister Stephen Hammond said: “We are transforming our railways through the biggest programme of rail investment ever. These exciting new trains, combined with the wider Thameslink Programme are a real boost to UK Plc, creating thousands of jobs in construction and across the supply chain, which is driving forward our economy.
“Once operational they will provide a huge benefit to the hundreds of thousands of passengers who travel into London every day. It will vastly improve train travel providing fast, reliable and more frequent services.”
The arrival of the first train, even though it is a demonstration model, has been delayed by the complexity of the contract. Siemens was controversially named as preferred bidder in mid-2011, but the contract was not agreed for a further two years. The award of the £1.6 billion order to Siemens was followed by protests in Derby, where the city's train builder Bombardier came second.
However, hopes have been rising in Derby recently, where Bombardier is one of three shortlisted contenders for the £1 billion contract to build the Crossrail fleet. An announcement is expected in early February.
Reader Comments:
Views expressed in submitted comments are that of the author, and not necessarily shared by Railnews.
John Gilbert, Cradley
From pictures the seating in the new Thameslink stock looks awful, and is already reputed to be hard. This on stock which will be operating up to 100 miles from London!! In addition the interiors look spartan in the extreme. Why?
(Also see the Railnews Blog for a comment about the new Class 700s.--Editor)
John Gilbert, Cradley
I read that the Great Western is already bellyaching that it MUST have NEW EMUs rather than Class 319s transferred from Thameslink. This would mean, OF COURSE, that ALL the 319s, more than 30 years old and probably unrefurbished would be dumped in the north. Now I am NOT a northerner but I do think they have a point when they say that any old second-hand stock will do for northern England while, OF COURSE, the sainted south-east gets new! We shall see.
A Kinge, Winchester
Chris Neville-Smith, Durham, I agree it is better to have Hitachi building their trains in the UK and at the same time employing UK workers and investing in skills and training. I have no doubt that their quality will be as ever be very high and this will help the supply chain in the UK improve their quality standards as well. I believe the likes of Hitachi, Siemens etc are able to expand is because their shareholders and home governments wouldn't countenance a takeover bid for such an important national asset and so they are not always chasing the ever growing profits quarter on quarter (I refer to my earlier comment about the City). The fault for our lack of home grown manufacturers in my opinion rests with the City and the short term thinking of govts of both hues. We did produce quality rolling stock the Mk2def & Mk3 coaches, HSTs, the second generation DMUs of the 1980's Class 158/159etc, must of which are still giving sterling service. Our Govts failed to invest, nurture and yes protect and I acknowledge that Northern England suffered. Whether we will see sensible policies in the future, I'm not too optimistic but I certainly hope that sensible procurement can ensure that both Bombardier and Hitachi are able to maintain viable operations in the UK, although I don't hold out much hope for the Germans and French buying Hitachi rail products from the UK.
Chris Neville-Smith, Durham
A Kinge, I take your point, but this is the fault of decades of neglect of both the UK's skilled manufacturing base and construction of rolling stock. You can't blame another country for having a protected market if you're making no attempt to produce the stuff they want to buy in the first place. The UK government has realised quite late in the game it needs to catch up on both skilled manufacturing and train construction, but for the foreseeable future it's overseas investment or nothing. Failure to have domestic investment 20 years ago is no reason to talk down foreign investment today if that's all that's available.
Anyway, I have a better idea: instead of cheering on the company you like and talking down the one don't, how about pushing for more rolling stock construction? There's plenty of lines that could do with it, and plenty of potential work to go round two factories. Who loses?
Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex
Hot on the heels of this demonstration has come the award to build trains for Crossrail to Bombardier thus guaranteeing a future for that plant and also given Crossrail trains will also build as Artic trains it will mean that in future their will be a choice of manufactures of this type of train.
In fact Artic trains bring about the possibility of adding extra carriage to trains much easier than separate carriages with the added benefit of making on train ticket inspection much easier!
Of course what our government should be doing is pressing for the opening up of the market in the EU to Hitachi trains but to do this they first have to overcome their anti EU tendency !
A Kinge, Winchester
This is not a North/South thing, I have very little time for the locusts in the City of London and their rapacious ways feeding on our companies/industries in order to earn their bonuses. I think its great that Hitachi have decided to build a factory in the UK and supply their excellent products. I sincerely hope that they go the way of Nissan in Sunderland and build excellent products, expand and export which the UK so badly needs. The point is as with many Japanese, Korean and European countries they have been able to grow and expand thanks to a heavily protected and biased procurement in their home markets. Our idiotic govts and civil service who cannot seem to think beyond a short term time horizon have allowed our home grown manufacturing base to wither and with it jobs and consequently the social issues being the result. Had they had a sensible and planned procurement policy then York, Doncaster or Crewe could have been building these trains instead. Incidentally the last time I looked and from a southern perspective all three were in the North.
Chris Neville-Smith, Durham, England
"and just how many jobs have been created in Japan by overseas companies winning a major order for rolling stock in that country ? Probably Zero."
If that's true, so what? I care about jobs up north, not how many northern investors are bankrolling factories in other countries.
This proves my point rather nicely. Hitachi is one of the best bits of jobs news in the north east - and believe me, we need all the jobs we can get up here - and yet plenty of people, mostly southerners, treat the hundreds of jobs as worthless because the owner is foreign.
It seems that plenty of people out there would rather no trains were built at all than have British workers employed by a foreign company. Yes, there's a debate to be had over whether Siemens, which did actually cause train manufacturing to go abroad, but that's not the case here. The people doing the barrage of negativity against Hitachi are more interested in proving a point that jobs, and are no friends of the north.
A Kinge, Winchester
Chris Neville-Smith, Durham, England, and just how many jobs have been created in Japan by overseas companies winning a major order for rolling stock in that country ? Probably Zero
Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with free and fair trade but its been anything but that when it comes to Japan. Surely it would be much better for the North if these jobs had been already there in say Doncaster, York, or Crewe manufacturing the rolling stock.
Chris Neville-Smith, Durham, England
Philip Russell: As I understand it, the main costs associated with longer trains are buying the rolling stock and lengthening the platforms. Having gone through all the trouble of those two, the extra fuel cost of running a longer train is pretty minor.
Jakthelad: In case you've forgotten, there as a lot of British jobs being recruited right now for the IEPs. I am sick to death of people treating northern jobs like they don't exist, don't count, or don't matter.
Paul, London
Jakthe lad as a daily user of Desiros and Electrostars I can confirm the former are far better trains for the travelling public. Comfort and build quality of the Siemens units are far superior to Bombardier, so a good decision.
Jakthe Lad, Tonbridge
Bet the window scratchers and sprayers are rubbing their hands at all this new canvas more waste of money,the Derby built Electrostar units are just as good,cheaper too but hang on musnt give train building jobs to Brits must we?
Philip Russell, Carlisle
It's probably an old fashions view but as these new trains will be mostly fixed 12 coach trains plus a few fixed 8 car units ,will this not end up as an inflexible and expensive way to move a large volumes of hot air at quieter times ,compared with the flexibility of the present 4 coach trains on todays Thameslink network
Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex
No doubt many passengers will be pleased that these trains use conventional seating layout and not the layout London overground uses given the length of journeys made..
However, From watching TV reports the adoption of large inter-carriage links like on the overground will be welcome but no doubt like on the overground / underground you will get people who walk through train to get to where they want to get off !
I believe these Artic trains won't fit in great Northern tunnels to Moorgate and this raises the question as to whether Moorgate services will be transferred to TFL overground and if so will overground get full service to Hertford North and Welwyn Garden City in Hertfordshire or will services be cut back closer to London ?
MikeB, Liverpool
So, the Class 700s will start to enter service in 2016, which probably means that refurbished Class 319s will not be cascaded to the North West until 2017/18 at the earliest. Northern will therefore be forced to carry on with diesels under the wires, unless 317s are made available as a stop-gap, which now seems unlikely.