Reader Comments:

Views expressed in submitted comments are that of the author, and not necessarily shared by Railnews.

• Joe Grey, Folkestone

  I know that Apex tickets and peak pricing are necessary and generally beneficial to passengers, having worked for some years analysing crowding/PIXC stats I actually think that there is a need to make the system more sophisticated in some areas.
  
  What I don't like is that there is no clarity. If I travel to London, the time restrictions for buying a CDR are not the same as the time restrictions on using a railcard. Why? Why can't I look on a timetable and see some sections highlihghted in green, some in yellow and some in red to denote three levels of peakness for all non-Apex fares?
  
  And while we're at it, why aren't CDS/CDRs valid to any possible destination?
  
  Southeastern website, after a bit of probing, comes up with singles Folkestone Ctl to Portsmouth Hbr (via London) £50, and (not via London) £19. Not via London takes two minutes longer than via London.
  
  FKC to Ryde is £66.10. Whether you go via London or not. So as far as a passenger is concerned, the IoW ferry costs £47. What is actually happening is (I think) that the rail industry has arbitrarily decided that not via London is OK with a CDS, but via London isn't. And it has decided that no-one wants a cheap day single from Folkestone to Ryde.
  
  (As an aside, thetrainline currently denies the existence of any tickets from FKC to PMH, and nationalrail.com won't give the option of showing the (slightly) slower journeys at the moment - is this becuase it can't cope with the complexity and irrationality of the system?).
  
  OK, so this is one example, but someone who knows the system can save money on a substantial percentage of journeys, not by playing the system but by knowing where the industry is playing the system.
  
  I know the system pretty well and it confused the heck out of me. It is a mess contrived by people who generaly get free travel and don't have to live by the system they have created.
  
  This is not the way of encouraging trust amongst the public.

• James Pritchard, Southampton

  The argument is not against the principle demand management at all. The need for peak/off-peak classification is clear, but the argument is that for walk-up fares the current system could be simplified.
  
  The rail industry has had some bad press re: customer satisfaction recently and there are times when it really doesn't help itself. Those of us who are regular travellers may not think that buying the right ticket is that difficult, but it is clear that it is an issue for some people. I wonder how many people travel on a more expensive fare than is necessary, providing a nice little earner for someone and fuelling the perception that rail travel is overpriced.
  
  Before someone wades in and blames the private operators entirely, remember that a lot of fare structures are set nationally and are to some extent government regulated. Many of the principles behind fare pricing have been around for decades and although we might need to accept that a major change is going to cost someone money, I wonder also if a lot of the resistance comes from traditionalists in the industry who simply need to be dragged (kicking and screaming if needs be) in to the modern world.
  
  The comparison with the airline industry is an interesting one - and I'm all for keeping Advance Fares for specific trains for those who are able to plan ahead, but I think that they should be treated separately from the "on the day" structures, which are the main issue at stake here. It's also worth noting that whereas the comparison is fair for long distance journeys, rail is a much more comprehensive mode of transport than domestic flying is, and must also compete with driving or bus and coach travel. We don't expect people to book a local bus in advance, or vary the fare accordingly, and neither does the price of petrol vary in the same way - so why should we expect rail travellers to always be so constrained!?

• Chris Neville-Smith, Durham, England

  We used to have simplicity on the East Coast Main Line not that long ago. Peak fares on the early trains only, and for most other people the Super Saver was the best value way to travel. (Apexes sometimes saved you money, but tended not to be worth considering.)
  
  The result? Afternoon peak trains from London rammed to standing all the way to Doncaster every weekday. The peak restrictions are there for very good reasons. Removing demand management to revert to pack trains and empty trains is not a price I consider worth paying.
  
  There are a few anomalies that need ironing out, but for the majority of journeys, you pick you train to travel on, and use it. People have done this on planes for decades, so why do people suddenly find this baffling when they're using a train?

• Joe Grey, Folkestone

  Obviously it'd be too simple to have just one national railcard (which the disabled, elderly, students etc can buy at a reduced price) available for any off-peak service. Or even to have two or three 'levels' of card - one offering 33% discount and one (albeit rather expensive one) giving 66% off for example.
  
  And while we're at it, having services (or part of - eg as a train gets within x miles of London) being designated as either 'off-peak' or 'peak' no matter what kind of ticket/railcard combo you use, would also be too simple.
  
  Keep things nice and complex and the public will end up overpaying.
  And feeling duped.
  And never 100% certain that they won't have to pay a £100+ upgrade because they (or in some cases the ticket inspector) didn't understand the intricacies of the fares system.
  And it'll mean that passenger queues at ticket offices can be kept nice and long while staff attempt to explain it how it all works to granny.
  And more people can get off trains before they are checked for tickets while the inspector tries and works out the cheapest option for that student at the other end of the carriage.
  And it keeps the newspapers happy because they can bash the industry about it's arcane practices and ridiculously high fares (that apparently no-one ever pays so why have them?).
  And it keeps beaurocrats in work sorting out the settlements.
  
  Who needs simplicity and clarity when complexity and obfuscation is so much more commercially viable?
  
  

• Chris Neville-Smith, Durham, England

  I sympathise with the argument of single people subsidising couples. but I think this is commercial decision aimed at getting more revenue in.
  
  I guess the issue is that trains are at their most expensive to run if they are packed during peak hours but empty the rest of the time. Therefore, it makes sense to flog off cheap seats in the off-peak periods to get as much revenue in as possible.
  
  With couples, I presume the issue is that you've got to try harder to be competitive with a car, because car costs stay the same with two people but train costs double. So with a couples railcard, you get slightly less money from people who would have travelled together anyway, but this gets more than offset by new passengers who would otherwise have not gone by train at all.
  
  Although, as a concession to single people, can we staff ticket inspectors entirely by people who have just had acrimonious break-ups, who can say to the railcard holders: "Yes, the ticket's fine. Enjoy it while you can just you wait, one day ..."

• Jonathan Brain, Herts

  Fills in a gap, but with increasing railcard use and a complicated fare structure I would recommend scrapping railcards and simplifying the fare structure.
  
  How about normally only being able to purchase a full price ordinary ticket - discount only available if it is impossible to travel on a more expensive train at time ticket purchased.
  
  If travelling on a train where a cheaper ticket could be used then On platform ticket validators on departure / arrival or by ticket inspection staff on train would provide the traveller with a discount on their next ticket purchase. Maybe add in some credit/debit card or mobile phone registration.
  

• James Pritchard, Southampton

  Good to see that the time restrictions tie-in with the typical end of the peak period (09:30). This is not the case for other railcards, such as the 16-25 Railcard, where the minimum fare restrictions mean that a simple peak/off-peak walk-up fare structure becomes "peak, off peak and that random 30min or so in between." Apparently, the 16-25 railcard rules are set by ATOC "on the basis of easing crowding in the peak shoulder" (according to South West Trains), but the levels of crowding I have seen don't seem to make this a legitimate excuse, and the fact that the new railcard is not similarly restricted gives me further reason to think that.
  
  What would be good is if the ticket machines allowed railcard fares to be purchased on the day a few minutes ahead of the restriction easing. At the moment, trying to buy a ticket for a 10:00 or slightly thereafter departure from a machine will result in the minimum fare of £12 being applied with a 16-25 railcard. This means that if one does not have the flexibility of ordering a ticket in advance one is faced with missing the train or boarding having not been able to purchase the correct ticket (and being persecuted by the likes of SWT as a result).
  
  (This may be an SWT issue. In my experience, First Capital Connect machines sell off-peak fares of all kinds during the last few minutes before they become valid each morning.--Editor.)

• Tim, Devon

  Unless they are going to sit on each other's laps they shouldn't get any discount at all.
  Single people face a higher cost of living already without subsidising couples.

• Melvyn Windebank, Canvey Island, Essex

  I think this is not actually a new idea as I believe Network Southeast Cards used to be valid for 2 people but that perk was withdrawn** making couples buy separate cards !
  
  The Disabled Railcard naturally allows a 2nd person to travel with same discount so with elderly persons railcard also become valid for a couple ?
  
  (**Not so. Network Cards continue to gain the same discount (33.3%) for up to three adults travelling with the card holder, plus up to four children (60% discount). The difference with the new national Railcard is that both holders must be named.--Editor.)